BRIEFINGS PODCAST: VIBING WITH GEN Z

Vibing with Gen Z

NOTE: While this transcript has been reviewed, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript.

Jill Wiltfong:

Does Gen Z have what it takes to make it in the workplace?

Margie Warrell:

This generation is like no other. True digital natives.

Jill Wiltfong:

I don't think any of us wanna work 100 hours a week.

Margie Warrell:

People have to eat. They need to earn money.

Jill Wiltfong:

That is a good thing, by the way.

Margie Warrell:

Cookie cutter trajectory, uncomfortable and awkward. You could argue that's every generation.

Jill Wiltfong:

I've been wrong my whole life!

Employee:

“Welcome! Before you begin your first day of work, please refer to our online employee etiquette training.” No link, but okay. Maybe this?

Training video 1:

First things first, your napkin must remain on your lap. Now let's go over the table settings. Butter knife.

Employee:

I'm thinking not quite. Let's try this.

Training video 2:

Business etiquette is all about treating coworkers and customers with respect and honesty. That means things like offering a firm handshake when initially meeting someone, showing up on time, or simply using, "Please," and, "Thank you."

Employee:

This can't be right.

Training video 3:

When customers come in for a meeting, we have to think outside of ourselves and think about the audience and the environment.

Employee:

Uh, maybe I just need to look for a new job.

Jill Wiltfong:

Hi, this is Jill Wiltfong, Chief Marketing Officer for Korn Ferry, and this is "Briefings", our deep dive into the world of leadership. Today's question is, does Gen Z have what it takes to make it in the workplace? It may be hard to believe, but almost half of firms are offering so-called etiquette classes to employees. They cover how workers dress, talk, and behave in the office, and experts say it's a reflection of how distressed leaders are as they watch how people return to and act in the office.

The biggest target, Gen Zs. Despite years of efforts to bridge the gap, the generational divide with this new entry into the workforce is stubbornly wide. And the more you talk to leaders, the more you see just how worried they are that things aren't getting any better. But let's remember we were all young once. Maybe it's not Gen Z's fault at all.

How do leaders, quote, vibe with this new generation?

With me today is Margie Warrell, a Korn Ferry Senior Client Partner and global authority on courageous leadership. Also, pretty good authority on Gen Z, because she's got four Gen Z kids at home. She spent much time in the trenches helping leaders address their multi-generational workforce, so she really is the perfect person to speak to on this.

Hi Margie, how's it going?

Margie Warrell:

It's going great, Jill, good to be with you.

Jill Wiltfong:

Glad to have you here. Margie, etiquette class feels like it's straight out of 1955. How did we get to this point where leaders feel that they actually need this?

Margie Warrell:

This generation really is different. The 9 to 24 generation is the first generation coming into the workforce that are true digital natives. Their primary lives are digital, and analog comes after that.

You know, if you went somewhere and didn't post it on Instagram, for some, maybe you really didn't go there. So, just recognizing they have been shaped by very different forces, and of course, they also had the disruption, and for some, perhaps even arrested development, of the pandemic, and now remote and hybrid working. So yeah, I don't think we can say it's the same usual generation gap. It really is a whole new different group of people coming into the workforce.

Jill Wiltfong:

Very interesting. You've probably seen the numbers, but they are definitely worth discussing. Only two in three business leaders think Gen Z workers have those soft skills that they need. And three in four leaders are saying this generation is, quote, "Difficult to work with." What do you make of that?

Margie Warrell:

There's no doubt that this generation, who have spent so much of their lives online and who have really learned to communicate first through their devices, can be really uncomfortable and awkward, and frankly, lacking some skills when it comes to interpersonal communication.

You know, dealing with confrontation, asking for feedback, getting feedback, how they respond to feedback, asking for what they want. In so many domains, these soft skills are underdeveloped, and there's a reason why there is a big focus on really dialing up those hard human skills that make the biggest impact in our ability to work with others.

Steven Bartlett (Entrepreneur and Podcaster of “The Diary of CEO”):

I have a fear that Gen Zs are the least resilient generation that I've ever seen. I reflect on the storms that my father went through at work, and I just know so deeply inside of me that there's no way some of these younger Gen Z people could weather such a storm without quitting, doing a long LinkedIn post to criticize their employee, then quitting, employer then quitting, and I just fear that Gen Z, when I'm hiring people that are in that generation, I almost need to go to an extra length just to check that they can cope with a high intensity culture where demands might come on a Saturday, because the world doesn't stop on Saturdays and Sundays.

Jill Wiltfong:

That's Steven Bartlett from "The Diary of CEO" speaking. So, this is an interesting take on the issue. Because of their background and how they were raised, is Gen Z actually more fragile than previous generations?

Margie Warrell:

Well, look, the data shows that we have never had a more depressed or anxious generation. Now, of course, we can't go back 300 years, we don't have data on that, but we do know that Gen Z reports higher levels of anxiety. They have higher diagnoses of mental illness.

And you know, just my own experience through, you know, my own children, who, four of them, Gen Zs born in '98, '99, 2001, 2003, just talking to their friends and talking to other parents, there is much higher incidence of mental health issues. So, I think it's fair to say that they can be more fragile. I also think it's fair to say that they're less equipped to deal with the stressors, those things that we all have to deal with, and can be that much more sensitive to their environment.

Jill Wiltfong:

Of course, we can't talk about this issue without hearing from the other side, so let's hear from Ziad Ahmed, the Gen Z founder of JUV Consulting.

Ziad Ahmed (Founder of JUV Consulting):

I don't think any of us want to work 100 hours a week, to have no piece of the pie, to work for someone you don't respect, to do something that you don't believe in. And I think for a long time, that's how we were told the world had to work, and I think a lot of folks are saying, no, maybe the world can work radically differently, and I think that's a good thing.

Jill Wiltfong:

Margie, he may have a point there. And it turns out he's not the only one unhappy with the way things are. Almost three in four Gen Z workers are thinking about a career change in the next 12 months.

Gen Z has sometimes received criticism for setting firmer work boundaries and putting more emphasis on this work-life balance, but do companies, Margie, risk losing this youngest member of the workforce that they've got there if they don't pay attention to this and do something to really address it?

Margie Warrell:

There is no doubt that Gen Z put a very high value on working for an organization whose values align with their own, that is purpose-driven, and it's really forcing organizations to step back and go, "How do we make sure our value proposition is one that attracts and retains the best people?"

But I think we're also going to face a reckoning with, people have to eat and they need to earn money, and so while we could say, yes, it's an employee's market, at the end of the day, there are going to be Gen Zs who have to sometimes make a little compromise on wanting to clock off at five o'clock to go to a yoga class, because that isn't the way that the world works for most organizations.

You know, there are commercial realities.

Hannah Grady Williams:

We're at the beginning of a mass extinction event of analog companies, and here's why. Most businesses don't understand that Gen Z is not just another generation, we're a new category of human. Our digital lives are primary. Our analog lives are secondary. There have never been humans 100% integrated with machines until now. For this reason, I believe that if you don't have a native digital on your board of directors, your leadership team, or at least one you pay to pester you like a fly in your ear, your business won't be relevant in 15 years.

Jill Wiltfong:

That's Gen Z advocate and author of "A Leader's Guide to Unlocking Gen Z", Hannah Grady Williams, with quite a lot to say. It's a stark warning to current leaders for sure.

Coming up, how important is it that the older generations wake up to the value of Gen Z, and can they?

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Hi, and welcome to the break. I'm Rupak Bhattacharya, and here's a quick look at what else is happening in business from Korn Ferry's This Week in Leadership.

Speaker:

While many employers may not intend to discriminate on the basis of age, we know it happens.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

A new report reveals that employers overwhelmingly rate older workers as top performers once they start jobs, but still hire more applicants ages 30 to 44. Experts worry preconceived notions are holding firms back from hiring the best talent.

Speaker:

The productivity numbers are really interesting. Non-farm productivity in the third quarter up 4.7%.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Productivity grew in the third quarter at its fastest pace in three years, increasing 4.7% year over year. Some experts say return to office mandates may be one reason. Others say the growth figure may be misleading and is mainly the result of greater consumer spending.

Interviewer:

So, TikTok is arguably the hottest platform for Gen Z. So, what made you want to give career advice instead of doing, say, pranks or dancing on TikTok?

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Over 3/4 of Gen Zers say that they regularly get career advice on TikTok according to a new survey. And a whopping 41% of them have made career related decisions based on information they found on the site.

For more insights on business and leadership, head to kornferry.com/insights. Now back to Jill and our episode on "Vibing with Gen Z".

Fermin Diez:

Gen Zs, there are several things that are interesting about them, but the reality is that they really like learning. They like to have new experiences. They're really not settled in any one profession in any one industry, so that's what makes them very hard, that they're motivated in different ways.

I think the mistake is to try to say, "I'm gonna retain you with money." I think the idea is going to be, "I'm gonna retain you with training, with development opportunities, with experiences."

Jill Wiltfong:

So, we're back with Margie Warrell, leadership expert and Korn Ferry Senior Client Partner, and we're talking about “Vibing with Gen Z”. That was HR expert Fermin Diez, speaking just now about what motivates Gen Z.

Margie, how should leaders be thinking about showing up differently for this newest generation of workers?

Margie Warrell:

I firstly think it's important to reframe how you will lead them, from being directive to, really, coaching and guiding and mentoring. I think Gen Z are looking for support. They are looking for affirmation. They grew up in the era of every kid gets a participation trophy. So, they're a little more hungry for affirmation, they are a little more needy of it, they're more expectant of it, but that doesn't mean that they just need to be told they're great all the time.

It's my experience that Gen Z really value transparent and thoughtful, honest feedback. They don't like passive aggression. In fact, I was talking to a couple of Gen Zs, and they said they often laugh at millennials who like to use all this psychobabble and be really verbose and say nothing.

And they said, "We really value respectful, direct communication."

Jill Wiltfong:

Diez also touched on this idea of development, which definitely jibes with our Korn Ferry global engagement data, which shows three in four of these Gen Z employees, like you say, is, they view learning and development as really key to workplace engagement.

So, what are your ideas, and what are your thoughts on how you can, or I guess, really, how might the developments of this Gen Z workforce really look and feel different than it did for prior generations?

Margie Warrell:

Well, Gen Zs have grown up in the world of algorithms and having things customized to them, and I think when they go into the modern workplace, they're expecting some level of customization for what their career path will be. And so, making sure that conversations are occurring where they feel like they're not just on some cookie cutter trajectory, but that they get a say in it, that they get to express what their desires are, what lights them up. They're very much not wanting to just follow some straight, linear path as people may have done 20 and 30 years ago.

What are different experiences they can get? They don't necessarily value the best healthcare plan, but they do value opportunities to keep growing and learning new skills.

Jill Wiltfong:

And I hope you don't mind me using a Gen Z term that I know you know, which is you totally ‘slayed’ this interview. Does that sound familiar? Slay!

That is a good thing, by the way. Thanks for coming on, Margie. Appreciate it.

Margie Warrell:

My pleasure, Jill. Thank you.

Jill Wiltfong:

The Executive Producer of "Briefings" is Jonathan Dahl. Today's episode was produced by Rupak Bhattacharya, Nadira Putri, and Teresa Allan, and edited by Jaron Henrie-McCrea. It contains reporting by Russell Pearlman, Arianne Cohen, and Peter Lauria.

Our video segment contains original artwork by Frazer Milton, Hayley Kennell, Jonathan Pink, and Sasha Kostyuk.

Don't forget to read our magazine, available at newsstands and at kornferry.com/briefings.

That's it for Korn Ferry's "Briefings".

I'm Jill Wiltfong. We'll see you next time.